The Hawken: The Official State Rifle of Missouri and how it happened with Rep. Mazzie Boyd
Missouri legislators voted on May 10, 2023 and passed a bill that designates the Hawken rifle as Missouri’s official state rifle. The original House bill (HB 224) was sponsored by Representative Mazzie Boyd(R) and was subsequently attached to a Senate bill in order to expedite the outcome. The action, pending Governor Parson’s signature, marks Missouri as the 7th state in the Union to elevate a rifle to official state status. Representative Doug Clemmons (D) co-sponsored the original bill.
Today I speak with Representative Mazzie Boyd who was one of the legislative leaders of the mission to recognize the Hawken as Missouri's state rifle. We discuss some of the legislative process that made this happen as well as the cultural impact recognition like this can have.
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The original Hawken (top) with Bob Browner’s copy below. Photo by Jeff Jaeger.
LINKS
https://www.facebook.com/mazzieformissouri
"Show Me the Hawkens" by Jeff Jaeger: https://www.ilovemuzzleloading.com/blog/missouri-names-hawken-the-official-state-rifle
Episode Transcript
Ethan: I'm Ethan. I love muzzleloading. Today we're talking with Missouri State Representative Maisie Boyd about what it took to make the Hawken rifle missouri's official state rifle. Welcome, Representative Boyd, to the program here. I'm excited to talk with you a little bit about how the Hawken became the state rifle for Missouri. Could you walk us through a little bit about when and how this initiative came to your attention?
Rep. Boyd: Hey, Ethan, thank you so much for having me. Um, you know, for full clarity, when this bill actually was presented to me by my friend, uh, Kyle Carroll, um, he is a big lover of the Hawken And so, honestly, I had no idea that the Hawken was even created in Missouri. And so when he was talking about this, he's like, I'm a part of this muzzle loading group. Um, and we think that the Hawken rifle would be amazing to be our official state rifle. There was nine other states at the time that have done it. And I was like, this is great. I think this is a great idea. When they came and actually testified in the committee, um, over why we should have the Hawken as the official state rifle. Everyone there said it was the best committee hearing they've ever been to, which was, I thought, pretty impressive because I've been in some committee hearings for some other my other bills that are, like, ten and 12 hours long and everyone's mad at the end. But this was a really great hearing. So you can pre file December 1. So I have this bill ready to.
Rep. Boyd: Then it has to get appointed to a committee. So I had to try to make sure I got to a committee, and it didn't even get to a committee until April. So I was like, normally, if your bill, um, gets to a committee April, that means it's not going anywhere.
Ethan: So you filed it in December of 2022. You have to wait until April for it to get to a committee. And that's usually a death sentence for this kind of thing.
Rep. Boyd: Yeah, I told the guys, I was like, it's probably going to be a few years before we can get this bill passed. But I knew how to work the floor. And so when bills come up, I knew there would be a naming bill. So I just figured if I can just get it through committee, have it passed, and tell people like, hey, this bill passed committee, um, I could put it as an amendment on somebody else's bill, which I could do that regardless.
Ethan: Okay.
Rep. Boyd: So I put it on a few bills that I thought were probably going to make it through the Senate. Um, and I had to go over to the Senate and work with the Senate sponsor of the bill. And they were very nervous, um, because they were afraid it might kill their big naming bill. But, uh, there was another gentleman in St. Louis area. He was actually a Democrat. And this Hawkens shop is in his district. And so he liked the bill and he actually supported it.
Ethan: Oh, that's wonderful.
Rep. Boyd: Which helped a lot.
Ethan: Yeah.
Rep. Boyd: Um, and I worked the senators pretty well. Um, it was just very nice of them to allow a freshman to have that on there, because they definitely didn't have to. So after it goes to the House, it passes through the House, goes back to the Senate. And this is like the last week of session. It goes to conference. So what happens at conferences is when you have the House and the Senate, they worked, um, on this bill. Now they're going to decide what they keep in it to be the last. So once the House and Senate decide, and during this conference, only a few people get to be a part of it, then it goes back to the House for approval and then back to the Senate.
Ethan: Okay.
Rep. Boyd: So the speaker of the House actually put me on the conference, which that's normally a very good sign that I will get to keep it on there. Because if you get on the conference, anything you added on there, they normally keep.
Ethan: Okay.
Rep. Boyd: So I was feeling pretty good. I told Kyle, I was like, don't tell them that I think it's going to pass, because I don't want to get anyone hopes up.
Ethan: Right.
Rep. Boyd: I was like, I literally just got put on the conference. This is going to be the main naming bill. So the governor just signed it. Uh, he signed it a few months ago. So it's been quite a deal.
Ethan: That's amazing.
Ethan: So, uh, Mr. Carroll, is he also a representative?
Rep. Boyd: He is not, actually. He is a, uh, commissioner, uh, in county, so okay.
Ethan: And that's one of the counties that you represent, is that right?
Rep. Boyd: So this is actually a county that my parents live in. I border his county, so I've known him my whole life.
Ethan: Okay. Uh, so he's a part of this muzzle loading club. He pitches the idea to you, and you get with your team then and make it happen.
Rep. Boyd: Yeah. I think I filed eight bills last year. Two of them, uh, made it through. And so that was one of I just I just always had it ready, um, to put on any bill that I thought would work. Um, and I talked about it a lot, which was kind of funny, because people would be like, okay, Maisie, we know that you're trying to pass the hawk and rifle and make it the official state rifle.
Ethan: Um, you're just walking around the state house with a hawking flag every time you meet somebody.
Rep. Boyd: I needed one. I needed one. But it's also really cool. So we have the Hawking classic here in Missouri.
Ethan: Yeah.
Rep. Boyd: And they just had it in Defiance. Were you there?
Ethan: No, I wasn't able to make it this been? Um, I'm working on coordinating conversation with some of the organizers because, um, the venue that they were hosting it at, um, has declined to host it in the future. So they're actually in a little bit, um, of not in trouble, necessarily, but they're trying to find a new venue to host it now because they've been dropped.
Rep. Boyd: So ridiculous. So ridiculous. I don't know why Daniel Boone would have loved that, but no, it's cool because you get to shoot, um, an original pocket.
Ethan: Um, what was that like for you?
Rep. Boyd: I was a little nervous. Not going to lie.
Ethan: Okay.
Rep. Boyd: Um, because I was like, man, this is like an 1820s gun. Is it going to blow up in my face? Of course it did not, but I just thought it was just so awesome, um, that, uh, Mr. Grimes allows people to be able to shoot it. I just thought, wow.
Ethan: So often that stuff is in a museum, which is wonderful, and it's preserved, or it's in a private collection, and it's preserved. But there is something to be said about allowing it to be out in public and to be seen, and then another level of that to be experienced, as it would have been in the 18 hundreds.
Rep. Boyd: Right. And actually, it wasn't Grimes. It's, uh, Mr. Roberts that allows people to shoot his original. And then you had his name's, Bob. He was the one that created, um, the replica for the official state rifle. So we got to shoot that, too. And I thought that was just awesome. I mean, it was so beautiful. Such a beautiful gun.
Ethan: That's fantastic. The gunsmith Maisie is mentioning here is Bob Browner. As Jeff Yeager wrote in Show Me the Hawkens the maker of the Hawk and Bench Copy is a St. Louis native and master gunsmith. Bob Browner. He began his gunsmithing career more than 50 years ago as a trainee of Master Gunsmiths Keith Newbauer and Ralph Hader. Browner's reputation for quality and precision earned him the gunsmithing job for the Hawken Copy. When congratulated on being chosen for the project, browner modestly replied that he was just the gunsmith. The hard work was done by grassroots people like Kyle Carroll, Art Russell, Paul Fennewald, David Wright, Greg Grimes, and Bob Woodfill, to name a few. Did you have much experience in muzzle loading beforehand?
Rep. Boyd: No, that was the first muzzle loading gun I've ever shot, actually.
Ethan: Really? Wow.
Rep. Boyd: Yeah.
Ethan: That's a great one to start with.
Rep. Boyd: Yeah. So it was just quite a process just watching them. Uh, of course, you put the ball in and then all of the extras and then pounding it down, and I was just like, wow. And thinking of I'm like, oh, my goodness. You had to have that thing ready if you wanted to shoot something. This was no, you just cock and shoot. This was a whole process. And so I find it fascinating that they even used it in the civil War.
Ethan: Yeah. It was such a pervasive technology for hundreds of years, and we've gone so far past it now. But, um, it's still neat to be able to experience it.
Rep. Boyd: Yes. You're going to have to come down next year. Wherever they have it, you have to shoot the original.
Ethan: I'm hoping to. It's something that's been on my list, and it's just something I've got to make some time for. I got to load up the baby and the wife and the van and make the trek.
Rep. Boyd: Yes, they can shoot it, too.
Ethan: Yeah, absolutely.
Ethan: We've touched on it a little bit here, but something that I try to talk about a little bit is, um, kind of the shift that we feel at times in American culture, shifting away from a positive opinion from firearms and firearms history. Uh, was this process of going through and dealing with the entirety of your coworkers in the House of Representatives and things here for your state, did that make this process difficult? Did you have to sit down and explain anything, or was it pretty smooth?
Rep. Boyd: Know, I think it was a little and I think it also helped that Representative Doug Clemens, who was a Democrat, also liked the, um you know, I had other pieces of gun legislation that of course, everyone hated. Well, not everyone the Democrats hated. Some Republicans don't like it, but they can outwardly say that stuff.
Ethan: Right, right.
Rep. Boyd: Um, but I think in this time that we're definitely in, there is, like, no respect, I think, for the Second Amendment or just for how our state was created in the opening of the west. And the Hawken shop was created, I think, uh, it was opened in 1815. The Hawken I think they made in 1820s. But that really is what helped Missouri's economy at the time, like the fur trading era. The fact that Missouri was leading in it is incredible. And having the Hawken rifle just completely changed the entire game and really helped with the opening of the west. And I think it's really important that people know that. I mean, I didn't know that. Um, I think trying to teach other generations what created Missouri and what made Missouri, I personally think the best state ever is super. You know, I think we've kind of, um, know more and more and more throughout the years. People are really scared of firearms. They don't know why we have them. And I think really great examples is what's been going on right now in other countries. A lot of countries took away citizens, um, rights to bear arms, um, and to have what they call machine guns or whatever, which is always ridiculous. I always love when they talk about ars. Um, but at the end of the day, you see now in other countries, they are giving back citizens'rights to be dependent and not independent on the earth. Sorry, I said that wrong. No, you're giving back citizens'rights to be independent and not dependent on their government. Um, I always believe the United States is just a few years away from having a war right here. And what are you going to do with some of these states that make it to where people cannot even conceal and carry? Um, that was the whole purpose of the Second Amendment, was to be an independent country and citizens that are independent from their government. Um, I think that's always something worth fighting for. Always. Um, I never want to be dependent on anyone besides Jesus Christ.
Ethan: Um, and I think it's important to me. It ties in the history of all of this. When you understand the history of your state and the people that started the state and the people that built businesses in that state and the people that came before, those people know you understand what they went through, what life was like and the kind of things that they had to do. I think you gain much more of a respect in context for the arms and their mean. I love what you brought up about the economy in Missouri being so dependent and so crucial to the expansion into the west. Because all of these things were, uh, just another piece of that economy and those businesses and those tradesmen, those skilled people, they were able to feed their families building these things for people that went out to gather resources that fed their this. I, uh, think when we understand the history and the context of mean, we're talking about America because that's where we're both at. I think you can gain a greater respect and a greater understanding as to why we still hold on to those things today.
Rep. Boyd: Yeah, absolutely. And I just think the fur trapping era is just so interesting because there's just so many pieces that went into it and you could just do so much with it. Uh, of course with clothing and just eating in general. I think a lot of younger kids don't realize you can't just go to Walmart and you get everything you need. I mean, these people had to do this to survive.
Ethan: Um, they're carrying what they had to survive on on their back or on a horse.
Rep. Boyd: Yeah. I mean, truly incredible though, just doing all of that plus carrying, um, I feel like it was fairly heavy for me, but probably not for the pioneers of those days.
Ethan: Right.
Rep. Boyd: A pretty epic gun though. Um, and then trying to make sure that they provide for their family. I think it's truly incredible and just shows the amount of work that went into it and now where we are today.
Ethan: Yes, absolutely.
Ethan: So after all of this, are you considering to getting involved in muzzle loading? If not going out to a reenactment or anything? Are you considering hunting with a muzzle loader perhaps?
Rep. Boyd: I don't know. I'm going to have to do, uh, step by step on how to load it first.
Ethan: Okay, well, I'm sure we can find some folks to help you out down there, for sure.
Rep. Boyd: Oh, they would love to. Yeah, they're great.
Ethan: Thank you so much, representative Boyd. I really, truly appreciate it. I'm excited. I love that you aren't a lifelong muzzle loading enthusiast, but you were still willing to champion this and bring a fresh perspective to this and make all of this happen. So I truly thank you so much. Coming from a state, uh, here in Indiana, we have a state rifle, and it is a muzzle loader. Um, I love seeing this spread to other states. I just think it's fantastic. So thank you so much, uh, for all the work that you've done here.
Rep. Boyd: Well, thanks so much for having me on. And this definitely was a huge team effort by a lot of people that helped me, because, of course, I had no idea about the Hawken rifle, and so they really deserve all the credit. I was just kind of the carrier. But they did so much work, um, and it was just truly awesome to be a part of it.
Ethan: I mentioned there that Indiana has their own state rifle. To my knowledge, they were the first to introduce a muzzle loading rifle as the state rifle with the John Small Kentucky Long rifle in March of 2012. Then in 2013, followed Kentucky in 2014. We saw Pennsylvania recognize the Pennsylvania long rifle as the official state rifle. Numbers, um, four, five, and six with West Virginia, Alaska, and Tennessee, uh, all introduced non muzzle loading rifles. But West Virginia did use the hall model 1819 Flint Lock rifle, although it is a breach loader, as their state rifle. In April of 2013, Missouri makes the 7th state in line here with the Hawken Plains rifle as their official state rifle. I should say here, utah, Arizona, and Texas have designated official state pistols. I'd like to thank Representative Maisie Boyd for coming onto the program on her way to work as a dedicated representative here of Missouri. Thank you so much, Maisie. And thank you again, uh, for leading the charge here, at least in this regard, in the state legislature, to bringing this, uh, recognition to Muzzleloading to Missouri history and to the Hawken name. As I said when we first published the news, I think it's wonderful to see another state recognizing their rich history in muzzleloading arms. We had a little bit of a teaser earlier on here, but we are going to be talking to Bob Voight of the Gemmer Muzzle Loading Club, uh, a representative working on the Hawken classic. Um, talking with him a little bit about some of the cultural roadblocks they are running into with their event in Missouri and how they're working to overcome them. I expect that to be out within a couple weeks of this episode airing as we coordinate, uh, and work on the final editing for this. I, um, want to talk about this because it is something that we are seeing across the country, whether you are an event, a club, or just an individual enthusiast. Um, the way I phrased my question to Representative Boyd about shifts in American culture I think is important, um, because we are seeing that we are seeing it affect muzzle loading. So I think, um, I'm excited for that conversation. I'm excited to see what we can do as a community here, to recognize some of the things that we're going through and then adapt and overcome them so that we can continue muzzle loading for future generations. If you'd like to see photos of anything we discussed in this episode, we'll have a link in the description or the show notes for this episode to Ilovemuzzleloading.com, where you can see photos of Representative Boyd and the state official rifle here for Missouri, the Hawken rifle, I'm Ethan. I love muzzleloading. Thank you so much for listening. We'll catch you next time.